kimpossiblefandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:June
Relationships If June is Mrs. Dr. Possible's sister, then Jocelyn is not related to her. Not true. It might not be a direct *blood* relationship, but related they would be through marriage. Love Robin (talk) 12:07, December 31, 2012 (UTC) ::This is simply from personal experience, but I have never seen relation through marriage carried past immediate family. ::Mknopp (talk) 19:16, December 31, 2012 (UTC) ::::I suppose it also depends on the "collective personality" of the family(ies) in question. Whatever June's relationship is to James, it would also be the same with his brother, and thus *his* daughter. ::::(::shrugs::) ::::Love Robin (talk) 13:26, January 1, 2013 (UTC) :::: ::You are correct that it varies from family to family, but I can say that I personally do not have the same relationship with my brother-in-law's sister nor her children as I do my brother-in-law and my niece and nephews. In fact, I have only met her and them two or three times in a decade and a half. ::Some families might be different. Although, considering that none of the other Possible's showed up for Larry's birthday and neither Larry nor June were ever shown at any of the Possible family events. I think there is more canonical evidence that June is not a Possible and that she isn't close to the Possibles. ::This, of course, is just by conjecture on what is shown. ::Mknopp (talk) 17:15, January 1, 2013 (UTC) ::::Well, there is a difference between what *is* and how it is *perceived and acted upon*. I have a brother who I don't feel very close to. We hardly see each other without my mother present or somehow involved, and she's dead now. No matter how we treat each other, we *are* related. (::shrug::) no big whoops either way in this regard. I just came across the statement and was compelled to comment. ::::Love Robin (talk) 03:06, January 2, 2013 (UTC) This is something that I had never given a lot of thought to before. So, I did a little looking into this. Here is what I found: The definition of affinity from West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. ::The relationship that a person has to the blood relatives of a spouse by virtue of the marriage. ::The doctrine of affinity developed from a Maxim of Canon Law that a Husband and Wife were made one by their marriage. There are three types of affinity. Direct affinity exists between the husband and his wife's relations by blood, or between the wife and the husband's relations by blood. Secondary affinity is between a spouse and the other spouse's relatives by marriage. Collateral affinity exists between a spouse and the relatives of the other spouse's relatives. The determination of affinity is important in various legal matters, such as deciding whether to prosecute a person for Incest or whether to disqualify a juror for bias. The definition is much more clear on our particular case in A Law Dictionary, Adapted to the Constitution and Laws of the United States. By John Bouvier ::Affinity or alliance is very different from kindred. Kindred are relations by blood; affinity is the tie which exists between one of the spouses with the kindred of the other; thus, the relations, of my wife, her brothers, her sisters, her uncles, are allied to me by affinity, and my brothers, sisters, are allied in the same way to my wife. But my brother and the sister of my wife are not allied by the ties of affinity. Of course, these are the legal definitions of affinal relations as defined by the US legal system. I am sure that there might be a group or nation somewhere in the world that might say different. However, for the purposes of this wiki and the show, which is based in the US, then it seems clear that if June is Ann's sister, then she is related to James through affinity, but she is not related to any of the other Possibles. Thoughts on this? Mknopp (talk) 14:32, January 2, 2013 (UTC) (::shrug::) That sounds like a definition of *matters legal*, but not practicality. The relatives are still relatives, that just defines where the Law will consider certain things legal or illegal, such as what constitutes incest, or how court matters will proceed. A spouse can not be compelled to testify against a spouse, but a child can against a parent and vice versa. Also, that definition will not keep authorities from trying to get such relatives to accept the children of others should anything happen to parents. That definition really only gives them an out if they don't want to bother, but try Family Services will, and quite strongly. As I said, what a family considers family is dependent upon the family in question. In addition, you want to find out who thinks of themselves as your relatives? Let you, or they, come into a HUGE sum of money. People you hardly knew existed will come to *you* with hands out, or *they* will shut the door in your face. I don't care what a lawbook tells me, I know who is my family and who is not, as well as feelings and grievances which would be injured by any slighting. My brother could drop dead and maybe I'd care. Certainly I'd feel bad for his wife and kids and just might grow closer to them with him and I no longer bumping heads. On the other hand, the kids of my ex-husband's sister and my sister's kids (and of course my own) are all thick as thieves and there is no way you'll tell any of them they are not related. Now, Slim and Joss may not have been at Larry's birthday by the simple fact they live two states away. However. 1) We don't know if they were invited or not, and 2) we didn't see Larry's true birthday party. The episode ''followed an afternoon where Kim's Hero Life and her Home Life collided, and Larry and his mother not comprehending what was truly going on. Throughout it all, ''Larry believed ''what was happening *was* Kim throwing him a party. Of course it wasn't, otherwise the ''only family attending ''was Kim, Larry, James, and June… and I'm sure that was not the plans. Fact is, we don't know what the plans were beyond seeing the one room's decorations, nor do we know the invitation list. Slim and Joss could very well have been there. Waiting for the *real* party to start. Or, you know, out searching for Larry in another area at June's insistence… (or Slim keeping his hero-worshiping girl away from Ron; cause you know them farmers' daughters only have one thing on their minds… Might explain her absence from Graduation too :p ) LOL, BTW, as far as we know June and Slim may be estranged or Exes, and Larry and Joss siblings. Conjecture; nothing to either support or disprove. Although Joss could have gotten her hair from June, and Larry his smarts from Slim, even if they have been kept stunted and in-turned by June's over protectiveness. Love Robin (talk) 16:25, January 2, 2013 (UTC) ::It sounds like you are combining/confounding the definition of relative with loved one (in a platonic sense). You can love people that you are not related to and you can not love people that you are related to. As you said earlier, how you feel about someone has little of nothing to do with whether you are related to a person. ::Affinial relations are a purely cultural/legal matter. In fact, in some cultures there was no such thing as affinial relations. Of course, most of those cultures treated women as little more than property, and marriage was more of a business transaction than a bonding of partners. However, the fact remains that in matters of affinial relations it is a cultural/legal thing, not a natural thing. ::Basically everything that you have described as showing relations (and my example also) is based on feelings of closeness and love. Which, as you and I have both stated are separated from ones kinship or affinial relatedness. ::You are of course correct that there are possible reasons for none of the Possibles being shown in ''Larry's Birthday just as there could be possible reasons for June/Larry never being shown nor mentioned in any episode featuring the extended Possible family. However, that doesn't change the fact that neither Larry nor June have ever been shown or even mentioned in any episode where they Possibles have gotten together, and none of the other Possibles have ever been shown or mentioned in any episode featuring Larry or June. ::Is this proof that they are related to Ann by blood? No, but it does suggest that as the most plausible answer. ::That being said, I had never thought of the fact that Slim and June could be exes. Now that could be a really cool fanfiction. ::Thank you for the, as usual, interesting discussion. ::Mknopp (talk) 16:46, January 2, 2013 (UTC) Overprotective or Justifiably Concerned? The one thing I hear most often about June is that she's overprotective. But to me, overprotective is when you're concerned about something that either isn't there, or isn't very likely. But from all indications, Larry DID need supervision that she couldn't provide at all times. Consider this: Larry gave Professor Dementor access to the Possible home, and Dementor could have easily taken the battle suit away from him under the right circumstances. Suppose one of the Possibles had been home? Suppose one of James's bosses had been there? Any number of things could have resulted in that becoming a highly damaging situation for the Possibles, all because of Larry's failure to separate fantasy from reality. He's lucky June ever let him out of the house, as far as I'm concerned. Failure to recognize Dementor as a villain is one thing. Failure to keep in mind that Kim is a world famous heroine, and giving just anyone access to her home, even in the name of role-playing, is quite another. - Dap00 11:50, April 21, 2013 (UTC) :In fiction one must always be careful of "selective morality", a term coined in the Ranma fanon to describe a person applying real world logic to a subset of the serious to prove their point. In this instance, what you are saying is technically true. However, if you were to apply the same logic to the rest of the show then both the Possibles and the Stoppables are technically unfit parents whose children should be removed from their custody due to the frequent life threatening situations that they allow their minor children to actively participate in. :Within the "logic" of the series June is an overprotective parent. Just as within the logic of the show the Possibles and Stoppables are good parents because they encourage, or at least don't discourage, their teenage children to travel around the world and engage villains in life or death situations. :Mknopp (talk) 12:22, April 22, 2013 (UTC) :::Speaking as a mother of 6, one of whom is legally autistic… June is *both* over-protective and justifiably concerned. :::Thing is, chicken or egg? Is she concerned because she is protective, or protective because she concerned? There is a difference. Mainly, which came first. :::If overly-protective, then *she* stunted his growth and maturity, kept him inside where his only outlet came to be exploring worlds of TV, Books, and other venues of fiction and fantasy. Which furthered his disassociation with reality, feeding into the justifiability of her concerns to be vigilantly protective. :::Yes, *he* could have been the one to reject her efforts to get him involved with "real world" activities, which started the whole thing rolling. However my professional diagnosis from what I take from the canon of this cartoon is a failure to communicate. Like Kim, June has no idea of what Larry's interests truly entail. All she knows is he is "not in touch with reality", and treats him as special. Which positive enforces the situation. If she were to have ever taken the time to *try* to see what he is into, she could comprehend where the lines lay, as well as help him to see where reality is. :::I have to do this with my daughter. She is into animals real and imaginary, especially dragons and horses even before MLP:FIM came along. She got her own TV because she hardly ever wants to get off Animal Planet, even over cartoons and kids networks. And that's *after* she has to be dragged *inside*, because she is a nature-girl to the core. Dirt and nature. She has a way with wildlife that is *uncanny*. She literally can hold a bee or yellow-jacket *by its hind legs* and it will NOT sting her. :::Through it all, I have to spend enough time with her to counter act some of what she self-learns. Strangers are not friends she has not met yet, so don't talk to them without a known guardian or friend with her. Do not leave the yard, even to go across the street to the woman who helps sit her at times, without permission, etc. :::As for Larry not comprehending the difference between LARPs and real life, to be fair, Kim's life is rather fantastic, and something not easily relatable if not encountered as frequently as the core Possible family does. Which had ever Kim bothered to work on their relationship, he'd probably have better grasped. As it was, Larry probably just sees Kim as another LARPer, as that is how he can only comprehend any of her stories about her missions. *I* think June is over-protective, but at this stage of the game, now has justifiable concerns. :::Love Robin (talk) 18:56, April 22, 2013 (UTC) ::: ::::Both points make sense to me. I think part of my issue is that while Larry constantly referred to fantasy franchises and characters in normal conversation, up until Larry's Birthday, he at least gave off the impression of only being slightly obsessed, but still perfectly functional. Larry's Birthday throws in the implication that he may not be okay to walk around on his own, then reinforces it with the Dementor scheme. And apart from that, to me he did seem to be functional, and June would have been overprotective and nothing else. But Larry's failure to separate fantasy from reality, in that particular case, threw everything into question. Which, I have to admit, was kind of a lousy decision in my view. If Larry had not seen the whole thing as an elaborate role-play, and instead was just playing along to lure Dementor into a vulnerable position for capture, I could actually go along with that. But the way it was presented, technically Hana is a better mission companion than Larry is. And that's referring strictly to her ability to recognize actual threats. - Dap00 19:49, April 22, 2013 (UTC)